EBL 5400mWh Tear Down - In Search of 5400mWh

[NotFitForPurpose]

Hi,
On the forum a member identified the EBL 5400mWh battery as a possible candidate for 9V PP3 (6LR61) replacement.

I obtained a set and certainly found they worked with my various Organisers. Even though I knew full well these types of batteries, that contain boost converters to take the 3.7 Volts held in a Lithium Polymer cell up to the 9 Volts required for a 9V PP3 (6LR61), when discharged just switch their outputs off! Meaning the low voltage detection circuit in the Organisers doesn't get chance to protect the internal memory and I got caught out! That event spawned this possible solution.

So in search of the mythical 5400 mWh hours I don't really seem to be achieving. Noting specifying a battery in this way is not typical. I tore one down, as many before me have done for other similar types.

The tear down confirms a number of things especially the battery is a 1000 mAh 3.7 volt cell. The circuit comprises a LiPo charger IC, Boost Regulator, and LiPo protection IC. There is an unmarked 8 pin SOIC device which at this point I am assuming a MOSFET.

Though I doubt the true capacity, I am trying to remember to start my testing to finalise some benchmark data.

EBL5400mwH-Tear-Down.jpg

The device is based on the MicroOne 1A Lithium Ion Batery Charger ME4057 and XB5136I2S Lithium-ion/Polymer Battery Protection IC

[amenjet]

That's interesting. I think the 5400mWh is designed to make you think it's a 5400mAh battery. My Poover 9V batteries say 680mAh, which I think is probably much more like the real capacity.

I've been thinking, and it's probably possible to create a module that fits in the battery area of the organiser, after the 9V battery clip has been removed (which is reversible) to make more space. That module could use the same circuitry as the 9V rechargeable battery, with a USB connector accessible out of the battery cover area. Maybe the module replaces the battery cover, maybe not. You could then fit a larger Lipo pouch in the space available and get convenient battery charging and a higher capacity. You'd also maybe be able to get a battery level measurement in there as well, somehow. All reversible.
Just an idea...

What's the number on the 5 pin IC?

[NotFitForPurpose]

Hi,
it won't surprise you, I was thinking along the same lines. Hence this effectively a benchmarking process as well.

It's marked SG4XX. After some digging, I beleive it to be a SGM6601YTN5G/TR Low-Power DC-DC Boost Converter.

Battery-Case Model-01.jpg

Un-interesting, though dimensionally correct, PP3 CAD model of PP3 (6LR61) case.

[amenjet]

Hi,
it won't surprise you, I was thinking along the same lines. Hence this effectively a benchmarking process as well.

It's marked SG4XX. After some digging, I beleive it to be a SGM6601YTN5G/TR Low-Power DC-DC Boost Converter.



Battery-Case Model-01.jpg
Un-interesting, though dimendionally correct, PP3 CAD model of PP3 (6LR61) case.

The circuit in those batteries could be copied and a PCB made that fits the space available. I don't think the original PCB works as the usb connector is in the wrong place. Also, the price and availability of those ICs needs to be checked. It would require a bit.of soldering and dismantling the organiser, but would be a really nice mod.

I can't really see how a battery monitor could be done. Maybe a small microcontroller with an a/d that reads the voltage on the pouch and transmits a serial data stream? actually, couldn't the existing battery threshold be changed by swapping some resistors to match the lipo voltages. Not ideal but better than the current threshold. Then wire that to the lipo rather than the 9v? A proper gas gauge is best but much harder to read from the existing organiser ROM.
Personally, I'm not too bothered about low battery, as I'd charge it regularly.

One tricky thing is how to get a usb connector pointing out if the case and not lose space in the battery compartment

[thesourcerer]

I’m quite happy with the EBL 600mA batteries. I don’t see them as a problem as long as you don’t forget to recharge them. I think the 5400mWh is a bit of a misleading description (?).

[NotFitForPurpose]

Hi,
Certainly, they seem to have done everything I asked of them.

I think the voltage stability seems reasonable (9.091 Typ. ±5 mV ~ 12.4 mA load {XP LA DO-LOOP}). I have it in mind it does not cope well with the step load demands from EPROM programming, addmitedly that's from memory . The electrical noise on the 9 Volt terminals circa 20 mV which seems reasonable. Under load the EMC appears relatively high, probably due to the low cost open inductor.

Finally, I have a cunning plan..
(S01EP01)
Edmund: Ah, yes — a drawback. Yes… Perhaps we need something a little more cunning.
Baldrick: I have a cunning plan.
Edmund: Yes, perhaps, but I think I may have a more cunning one.
Baldrick: Well, mine’s pretty cunning, My Lord.
Edmund: Yes, but not cunning enough, I imagine.
Baldrick: Well, that depends how cunning you mean, My Lord.
Edmund: Well, pretty damn cunning. How cunning do you think I mean?
Baldrick: Well, mine’s quite cunning, My Lord.
Edmund: (fed up) Alright, then, let’s hear it! Let’s hear what’s so damn cunning!
Baldrick: Right, well, first of all, you get him to come with you–
Edmund: Oh yes, very cunning. Brilliantly cunning. I ask
him to come with me and then…then stab him, perhaps. How cunning can you get?

NFfP: To charge in place via USB-C, My Lord. (and not loose A:)

[amenjet]

I have charged these in place by replacing the original battery connector with a standard PP3 connector on a wire. The USB is then accessible by taking the battery out of the case. It's the arrangement the Organiser I uses.

[NotFitForPurpose]

With Protect Basic installed in the Top Slot and a suitably modified DO-LOOP with logging to A:.

I now have a practicable and use case dereived test system, that would represent the maximum program run time utilising A:. A constant current load would do a similar job, though this is lower cost and repeatable by others (and logs its own period).
During all previous monitoring, the battery terminal voltage was more influenced by ambient temperature than time at load.

I charged an EBL 5400 mWh battery and started it running.

If I have my math correct its supposed to run for some where in the region of 47 hours.
Again if my math holds up I am expecting it to run no more than 32 hours.
The difference I attribute to how deep they are prepared to run down the cell terminal voltage, I will also discover that. I suspect that is where things start to get interesting.

[NotFitForPurpose]

Hi,
results are in for the EBL 5400mWh battery.

Test conditions:
EBL 5400mWh 1000 mAh 3.7V 3.7Wh 102439 CV_9V V1.0 PCB CE-D
Hardware Psion Organiser 2 XP (LA)
Battery Saver Basic (to retain A: contents on battery shutdown)
23 Ambient ±2 C
Battery re-charged
10 Minutes cool down following re-charge
DO-LOOP Current consumption 12.222 mA average
29 hrs 20 minutes continuous operation duration ±5 Minutes
LiPo terminal voltage < 5 minutes following shutdown 2.83 volts

Next up a Duracell PROCELL CONSTANT

[NotFitForPurpose]

Hi,
the results are in for a fairly classic Alkaline PP3...

Test conditions:
Duracell Procell Alkaline Constant
Hardware Psion Organiser 2 XP (LA)
Battery Saver Basic (to retain A: contents on battery shutdown)
23 Ambient ±2 C
New battery
DO-LOOP Current consumption 12.222 mA average
56 hrs 5 minutes continuous operation duration ±5 Minutes
99% of specified battery capacity accessed / utilised

- I am minded the test case sound and am being generous still looking for 15 hours from a '5400 mWh' device.

I am looking to acquire new batteries to test:
A Classic Duracell is a given.

Any favorites for an Alkaline type?